Newsgroups: rec.sport.skating.roller,rec.answers,news.answers Subject: Conventional (quad) Roller Skating FAQ, part 2 of 2 Summary: Conventional (quad) Roller Skating - Second Part References: Sender: Followup-To: rec.sport.skating.roller Reply-To: grr@tharsis.com Distribution: Organization: George's Pet Unix System Keywords: skating,roller,quad,FAQ Expires: Thu Nov 30 14:46:14 EST 1995 Archive-Name: roller-skating/roller-faq-2 Posting-Frequency: monthly Last-Modified: Sat Mar 1 17:49:37 EST 1997 *** Copyright 1994-1996 by George Robbins - see detailed note at end *** -- continued from part 1 of 2 -- Skating Styles Although there are many styles of skating, it is hard to make clear distinctions between them, since they all tend to blur together and the names differ and conflict between different regions. Also, most individual skaters tend to display a unique mix of skating styles and moves. The intent here is just to provide some hints about what you minght see out on the floor at a rink, especially if you find youself visting in strange lands. Round'n'Round This is also called plain skating or session skating and is simply the default mode at many rinks. You basically skate ovals around the rink at speeds appropriate to the music. As you gain experience you can skate backwards or in couples during some selections. Shuffle Skating Shuffle skating usually implies faster skating where the basic stroking is replaced by fancy footwork - a repetive pattern of fore-aft shuffles, sculls, scissors and body dips. Hardcore shuffle skaters often skate as synchronized couples or in packs. Advanced shuffle skaters may also do synchronized turns, jumps, kicks and floor tapping. Also known as Freestyle, Jamming, Cruising or Trucking in some areas. Rexing Rexing is fast backwards shuffle skating, with style or in patterns, single or couples. The term is local to Southern California, and though folks skate backwards in many places, only in California were there Rexing clubs and competitions. Also known as Jamming in the midwest. Why backards? There's something different about flying butt-first, and the balances allows a lot of toe-action and many odd scissored or moon-walking gaits. Side-Surfing/Sidewinder Side-surfing is skating in a spread-eagled stance, with feet rolling one forward, one back. Good or flexible side-surfers can get a strong propulsive action going and skating inside or outside around curves. Side-surfing is also preferred for extreme skating on the ramps or bowls of skate parks. Dance (contemporary) In contemporary dance skating, the emphasis is on dancing or expressive skating to contemporary music, disco/house/rock/rap/whatever. The pace may be fast or slow, the skating may be simply stepping/gliding on the beat or it may include synchronized maneuvers, turns, spins or jumps. In some areas this is called freestyle to separated it from the more programmed or rigid styles of dance. Roller Disco/Jamming/Urban Disco or Jamming includes elements derived from break dancing, disco dancing, aerobics, posing and synchronized exaggerated movements, often to disco, rap or other heavy beat oriented music. Some rinks in the Chicago/Michigan areas also have James Brown skating which emphasizes classic soul/R&B music. At other rinks you'll find skaters with choreographed programs for certain selections or called line dances where a handful or dozens of skaters try to execute the programs. Sometimes called Skate Dancing or Stepping. Grapvine/Spot Rexing Basically this is the devolution of jamming and fancy footwork into a stationary or very confined pattern. The ideal grapevine would be done on a 3'x3' square platform. The grapevine can also refer to fancy intertwined footwork that would leave a braided pattern across the floor. In some areas, this is called rubberlegging. Strutting, Slow Walking, Moonwalking These are forms of skating where the degree of body movement or foot work is realativly great in comparison the progress around the rink. One form of backwards strut involves skating backwards while doing crossed-behind outside edges. The local Slow Walk involves a line of people doing turns, strokes an two-steps forward, one step back as they work around the periphery of the rink. Moonwalking involves skating where the rolling stroke of the skate is opposite what you'd expect for the direction of travel. Open House Open house is a Detroit/Chicago/Toledo special where skilled skaters can skate in any direction, so that the skaters may dance around or intertwine with skaters going in the opposite direction. Figure Skating (Artistic) Figure skating is precision skating, nominally consisting of edges and turns against a circular or figure-eight pattern, however the moves, balance and precision can be carried over into the less formal modes of skating. Freestyle (Artistic) Freestyle is most visible form of skating today, the skating with jumps and spins that you see on television. Most of the ice maneuvers can be done on roller skates and there are few moves unique to roller skating. Unfortunately, serious freestyle requires the whole rink, so casual opportunities are limited. Many rinks will prohibit freestyle maneuvers during normal sessions or limit them to the central rink area. Dance (Artistic) Traditional roller dance consists of social/ballroom dances - Waltzes, Tangos, Foxtrots and Marches, adapted to skating and performed by couples with organ music accompaniment. While this may not initially seem very attractive to younger skaters, presented with the choice of trying it or twiddling your fingers until the next "all-skate" you might want to give it a try. Also dance skating and dance lessons emphasize good skating form, balance and timing, which can help a relatively in-experienced adult skater progress quickly from "gets around without falling" to feeling at ease on their skates. Speed Indoor speed skating consists of racing laps around the rink. Usually this is done in separate closed racing sessions, but some rinks have "races" to break up youth sessions. Real speed skating requires training and good skating form - this shouldn't be confused with skating fast or out of control during a normal skating session. Hockey Roller Hockey is played on roller skates with modified ice hockey rules and equipment. The classic indoor form uses curved plastic or wooden sticks and a soft rubber ball substituting for a puck. Outdoor/in-line skaters seem to lean to a rougher game more like ice hockey, using a puck or hard ball and definitely requiring pads and other protective gear. If you have an opportunity to play informal or pick-up hockey it can actually be quite a bit of fun and also helps to extend the envelope of what is "safe" on your skates. There is a "USAC/RS sanctioned" form of Roller Hockey which is part of an international tournament structure. Many rinks also have organized teams playing with the USAC/RS JO (Junior Olympics) equipment and rules. Roller Derby Roller Derby is the Professional Wrestling of the skating world, great entertainment for some, but the skill of the skaters is eclipsed by the showmanship/acting of the participants. Once a popular spectator and then televised event, it is currently dormant with some fitful attempts to get a "league" going in California and limited airplay on the cable television "Classic Sports Network". Learning to skate Well, I hate to mention this, but since most people aren't born with wheels, skating is an activity that is not instinctive, but which must be learned! Many of us have memories of the time a "friend" talked us into "going skating" and the painful and embarrassing result. Speaking as a male, skating was obviously invented by females as a way to humble males by making them look foolish and incompetent - see the Chaplin silent film "The Rink" for a better understanding of this. A common question is "how long does it take to learn?" While there is no fixed answer, it's fairly safe to claim that most people will start to feel comfortable on skates after about a half-dozen sessions. This time is needed to develop the basic skate control reflexes and the start of an effective propulsive stroke. Learning continues fairly quickly after this point and the skater will develop a more confident balance, effective stroke and pick up a few "tricks" over the first few months. Some people may learn more quickly, and others, especially those that are resolutely non-physical or klutzy may take longer. Some folks can have a serious obstacle in the form of being afraid to fall - you have to be willing/able to take some small risks to gain a feeling for what is and what isn't secure or comfortable. Such timid skaters may progress very slowly until they feel secure or find some particularly enjoyable aspect of skating. Of the folks that drop out, many are lacking clear motivation or just wanted to "try it". Some just can't see the point despite however much fun their friends claim to be having. Some people regrettably never make it over the initial hump or can't "let go" enough to make progress. Lessons Lessons are generally one of the best bargains going. Sure you can learn to skate on your own or with a little help from friends, but you will learn much more quickly when an instructor can point out your mistakes, give helpful tips and pace the introduction of more complex steps or moves. Too often a person learning on their own will make good initial progress, but then they get stuck at certain points or start to accumulate bad habits that will delay later progress. Lessons are generally available on either a group or individual basis. The group lessons are usually offered before regular sessions or during the weekend/daytime off-hours. Prices can be as low as a dollar extra over the normal session price to several dollars for a special hour-long session. The group lessons usually start out fairly non-specific and then move on to the social/ballroom dances. Even if you aren't all that interested in dance skating, there is still a lot of benefit from to be had from mastering the underlying skills. Individual lessons are more expensive, working out to around something like $20-30/hour. Depending on the instructor and situation, lessons generally run from 20 minutes to an hour of personal attention, usually with some extra time for warmup or practice with other students. The one-on-one time can be pretty intense, so it is probably a good idea to start with group lessons until the skater feels reasonably good about their skating skills. Most rinks offer beginners instruction and dance, but not necessarily freestyle (jumps and spins) or Figures. Sometimes instructors are less interested in adults than children with competitive potential. The best advice is to first learn to skate well and with confidence, and then to worry about your specialty. Chances are it's going to take a while to get there and in the meantime, you can meet various instructors and visit other rinks. It's also worth visiting one of the regional competitions - not only will you get a chance to see other skaters, some very good and some maybe not so good, but you can also meet instructors/coaches and find which rinks/clubs are serious about skating. In some cases the instructors/lessons are associated directly with the rink, in others they are associated with a figure, dance or "artistic" skating club at the rink. In the latter case, you may be required to join the club and pay dues which contribute to rink rental for dedicated practice time. Managing the Skating Experience At some remove, you can always just go out and skate, however for the beginner or the adult skater with other lives to lead and only one body, some thought in direction of skating wisely is worthwhile. Allow plenty of time to get to the rink without rushing and so that you can get in and get your skates on without feeling left behind. The more stress and worries you drag in with you, the longer it takes to loosen up and enjoy skating. If you you're running late, mentally set a new arrival time so that you can still take it easy and arrive for the "best part" of the session. The best attitude to enter a rink is with is one of expectancy and curiousity as to what will unfold, both in your skating and the session. This doens't mean you shouldn't have goals or things that you want to work on, but go in all jacked up and events can set you back, go in down and draggy and you'll stay that way. Be open and chances are that things will go well, or even if they're slow you may stil pick up on a second wave and walk out on a high. Take your time to put on and lace up your skates, smile and greet your friends, but don't let that interfere with your fingers. If the music starts, so what, the first selections are just to get you in the mood. Stand up, sretch, wiggle and assess your energy/balance level. Take the floor but cut towards the center and just skate gently until you feel the skates, the floor and your balance. Work up the pace a little bit and do a few of turns moves or stretches that work for you and pose little risk. At the point where you're breathing a little, starting to break a sweat and the outside world has receeded, take the time to do some serious stretching, either on the skating floor or out on the surround. After stretching, skate your heart. If you're full of energy, go for it, if you feel like moping, mope around the center and chances are at some point the music, your body or watching some other skater will pick you up and get you rolling. I think it's important to make this "take the floor" sequence a habit, the folks who sit and chat or wait for a tune they like to start skating are the ones who end up excercising their jaw and butt or can't seem to get with it when they do up and skate, they're gravitating towards the wrong pole! Know the session schedule and your schedule. None of us can skate full out the whole session, so it's important to know when you should take a time-out and whether a sip of water, a slush drink, a soda, a pretzel or a of pizza is indicated. Moderation please - a large soda, a hot dog or two slices of pizza at the wrong time can end the hi-energy phase of the evening, as can sitting twice as long as you intended because a xyz skate came on just as you finished your snack or chat. Planning is important, you are at a disadvantage if a couples skate begins while you're in the rest room or parnters may prove scarce if you're all funky and sweaty from some heroics right before the "last couples"... When the end of the session does come around, the last thing you want to do is whip of your skates and jump in the car. Your object is to take the longest reasonable time between stopping skating and walking out that door, so that your breathing and pulse are only slightly elevated when you hit the chill. Roll till you're chased off the floor and let yourself "sweat down" as you sit and take off your skates. Stretch and "walk off" muscle tension as you continue to cool off. If you're damp as a dishrag, visit the rest room and rinse off your face and arms, changing into a dry shirt is a good idea. If the rink is chilly or it's cold out, put your sweatshirt or jacket on as soon as you're over most of the sweating, but before you cool off. The best thing for "skaters legs" is to walk for 10-20 minutes after skating then take a nice hot shower. This gives all those muscles used "one way" a chance to stretch and relax and works the other ones a bit. Realistically, this isn't often practical, but the worst thing is probably to hop in your cold car and drive an hour. Chances are when you (try to) get out, you feel all cramped and tightened up. If the rink tends to rush you out, adjourn to the nearest convenience store or stop partway home to stretch and walk around. You can also do a series of isometric tense-relax leg excrercises as you drive too keep your legs from stiffening up from a lack of movement. The final question is how often and how hard to skate. Bluntly, it's foolish to skate beyond your condition and endurance, even if part of your plan is to burn calories. You'll burn out and you'll be spending a lot of time with sore joints and muscles or in low-yield sessions where you can't find energy or pick up on the music. Strenuous excercise works best on alternating days or a two-on, one-off pattern that allows for a recovery period. If you watch the high-energy, skate every session folks, you'll usually find that they only really put out for about an hour during the session, the rest is relaxed skating or socializing. You'll also find that moderately energetic walking or cycling on your off days leads to more skating energy than doing nothing for excercize. Skaters and their SO's. It's not too unusual for one person to be a competent skater and then hook up with a friend/lover/spouse (netspeak SO - significant other) who doesn't skate. This can end up being a surprisingly dicey issue - if the SO is not interested in skating, the skating has to be justified as a safe/worthwhile activity, even though it may involve a whole group of alien acquaintances. Even if the SO is interested in learning to skate, getting them "up to speed" can prove a surprisingly difficult and stressful task. If you're trying to introduce an SO to skating, you need to keep in mind that egos are fragile things, and relationships can be shattered when one party is publically humiliated in front of the other. This humiliation can be all too quick in a cold attempt or the "don't worry, I'll show you" approach to skating. Unless you and your SO have been though this kind of thing before, I strongly recommend group lessons or private instruction so that your SO gets reinforcement that the initial klutziness is normal and surmounting it is just part of the fun. Coming along a bit after this are some interesting jealousy traps, where the begining skater is insecure about their progress and feels that their SO seems to enjoy skating more with experienced skaters or even by them- selves. To be honest, skating with a beginner can be trying, but seeing your partner progress and start to enjoy themselves more than makes up for this. Talking things through can help, but lessons and taking care to avoid the problems in the first place are critical. There can also be problems in the cases where one SO skates and the other doesn't or is much less interested. Too often the non-skating SO tends to trivialize the skating activity. It's not unusual for the non-skater to consider the skating optional and give priority to the most trivial activity which could be scheduled for any day of the week - but just try to pry that same non-skater away from Monday-night football, their gym days or or re-runs of Cheers. Problems can also arise when skating is considered as "going out" - not to say that there's never any of that old hanky-panky around the rink, but most rinks are enough of a fishbowl that folks tend to play-act more than they really fool around. Finally, kids can be a problem - when they're young, you may need to pay for a baby sitter or worse, require your SO to baby sit while you go out. Even though older children may act like they don't want parents around, they have a way of conspiring to insure that their parents are always handy for a ride or otherwise prevented from "having fun" that the kids aren't involved in. You need to make clear to children and SO that some evenings are reserved and they are expected to plan around it. There are no simple solutions to these problems, but do try to keep skating and not end up one as one of those folks who "loved skating" but had to give it up until the divorce or the kids are finally out of the house. If all else fails, see if you can find/organize "coffee club" sessions at a local rink, where one can handle child-control while the others skate. Competitions and Tests The USAC/RS is the officially recognized national sanctioning body for the sport of roller skating in the United States. In theory, this means that an amateur skater following the rules and competing in sanctioned events can compete for national and international titles up to the Olympic level. However, at present only Roller Hockey has been accepted as an Olympic demonstration event and the prospects of any roller sport being included in the Olypmics are doubtful, although there are roller skating events in secondary venues such as the Pan American Games and Olympic festivals. Recently the USAC/RS has indicated that they're officially operating under the name USA Roller Skating, but it will probably be a long time before this becomes common usage. Note that while USAC/RS certifies coaches, judges and events, the RSROA/RSA has defined a series of achievement tests for evaluating and rewarding the progress of the developing amateur skater. While these tests are given by RSA member and have no official USAC/RS standing, performance at a given test level may be required for entry in some competitions or events. There are various local, regional and national competitions. At the lower levels these serve as a chance for students to demonstate their skill and get some exposure to the stress of a competitive environment, while at the higher levels they serve to qualify skaters for the more important competitions and to select national and international champions. While much of the competition scene is oriented towards young skaters, there are parallel paths for young and adult skaters that converge at the highest levels of competition. The important thing is really the desire to perfect your skating and display your skills is a public, competitive environment. "Standard" Artistic Skating Competitive Divisions: World Class Qualification through previous placement Jr. World Class Qualification through previous placement Senior Qualification through previous placement Junior Qualification through previous placement Sophomore age 15 and older Freshman age 13 and 14 Elementary age 11 and 12 Juvenile age 9 and 10 Primary age 8 and younger Novice age 25 and older & never placed in national competition Classic age 25 and older Esquire age 35 and older Masters age 45 and older There are also JO (Junior Olypmic) categories for skaters in their first two competitive seasons. This program was developed in line with USOC requirements that eligible sports have a development program to insure that the overall program was open to upcoming atheletes and not tending in the direction of a "pro tour" with participation limited for the benefit of those involved. The long-term benefits of the program and it's inclusion in national level events is still debated by coaches and others. Competition Schedule '96-97 (** This shows up as part 3 of 2, if and when I get info! **) Injuries, Safety and Falling Skating is a "participation sport", which means that there is always some possibility of getting hurt, either as a result of a mistake on your part or someone else's. This said, injuries are pretty infrequent and even falling becomes the exception as you become more experienced. Many injuries are the result of showing-off and horseplay - steer clear of people not focused on skating and make managment aware of what you perceive as risky behavior or negligent skate guards. For beginners the most common injury seems to be a sprained or broken wrist when the skater uses their hands to break a fall. Minor knee injuries or broken/sprained ankles also occur occasionally, usually in a multi-skater pileup where people get their legs tangled or when there is interference with a wall or seating. It should be pointed out that the safest spot is out in the middle of the rink! While the beginner has a tendency to want to stay near the barrier, this puts the skater in direct proximity to an additional hard surface and provides a place to tangle your feet. Also, most rinks ask that slower skaters stay towards the inside of the rink and leave a lane by the barrier for faster skaters. Other high risk areas are the seating/changing areas, rest rooms and snack bar. Irregular flooring and objects to get tangled with must be treated with respect. Learn to sit down by bending your knees and planting your butt - reaching out and leaning over to grab the back of a chair is a sure way to end up kneeling or even kissing the chair. Beginners often fall when trying to enter or leave the rink during the middle of a skate. Trying to cross traffic is a tense situation and the skater often loses their balance in trying to lunge out. If you can't wait until a break between skates, or things are still too fast, the best thing is to enter the rink along the wall and then work across when there are gaps. This way you are already rolling and skaters coming up behind you will be able to see and avoid you. When leaving the rink, work your way out to the barrier along the back stretch and then exit. A gesture with your arm will usually warn the fast skaters that you are wanting to go out and keep them from zipping between you and the wall. A skater moving with traffic is much easier to predict and avoid than one stopped or moving cross traffic. If you get "caught" out in the center, signal the skate guard and they will help you get across. Falling is a fact of life. Sometimes it happens with no warning and all you can do is wait until everything stops and you can pick yourself up. More often, you feel that you are losing your balance and about to go down. The reflexive behavior is to try to flail around with your arms and legs to recover your balance, but this often results in things going from bad to worse. The best response is to immediately start folding at the knees. Not only is there a fair chance that you can recover your balance, but if you do fall, it will be much less traumatic to tumble from a low position than fully upright. Also, when landing you don't want to try to catch yourself with your hands - your wrists just aren't all that strong relative to the force of a fall and it is too easy to break or hyper-extend (bend backwards) a wrist or slap your hand against the rink surface. Try to twist so that you land on the muscle mass of your hips or shoulders, and bend a little so that you can roll, rather then hitting all at once. If you start falling backwards, it is important to protect your head and back. Again, start by folding at the knees, curve your back and tuck in your chin firmly. Try to land on one cheek or thigh and then roll over your back and shoulder to prevent spinal compression or tailbone injuries. Keep you chin tucked in to avoid the back of your head hitting the floor and try to cross your arms in front of your chest to protect your elbows. Nobody can prevent all falls nor employ all this "how to fall" advice except through experience, however try to keep it in mind and perhaps practice on a carpet or mat, and as you progress to fancier moves and faster skating your ability to fall with minimal trauma will improve. If you've watched freestyle skaters practicing or competing, you see that they fall, get up and keep going. Part of it's being young, the rest is knowing how to fall. If you have progressed to the point where you are skating fast with the crowd, be warned that sliding on the floor can result in skinned knees and elbows or superficial "burns" on your hands. Ladies should avoid the lycra or nylons until they reach the "almost never fall" stage. Cotton slacks and shirts are recommended - polyester tends to melt, resulting in big holes and more chance of a burn. Most indoor skaters don't employ any protective gear during normal sessions. Some instructors are now encouraging beginners to wear wrist guards to minimize the chance of injuring a wrist during the initial learning period. Occasionally experienced skaters will wear knee pads or helmets when taking lessons, working difficult moves or out of respect for previous injuries. Wearing sweat pants/shirt is discreet way to get a little extra padding, but will be too hot in summer conditions. More protective gear would obviously be good, but most skaters will tend to conform to what they see others wearing. Insurance and Legal Issues Roller rinks go to some lenghts to disavow responsibility for personal injury to patrons and related medical expenses. They will generally provide immediate first-aid and/or call the local emergency medical service, but don't expect them to pay the resulting bills. Considering that a trip to to local emergency room typically costs a couple hundred bucks, just for stitches, to thousands for a head-injury where overnight observation and MRI tests may be indicated, this is a good advertisiment for having some kind of personal health insurance coverage if you're a serious skater. Not everyone gets hurt, and not often, but long-time skaters usually have at least one or two accidents that required some medical treatment. The position that the rinks take is that skaters are engaging in an activity with known risks and the skater accepts responsibility for the accidental consequences. The rink only provides a locale for skaters and in most cases it's the injured skater or another skater who would be liable for injury claims. Rinks may have insurance to protect themselves against claims, but not the skaters. Lawsuits against rinks are generally unsuccessful, except in cases where an insurance company is willing to make a small settlement. In some skates specific "Roller Rink Safety and Fair Liabilty" acts, or there are general participation sports liability acts that legally establish the liability of the rink for accidents, and also specify minimum standards for rink in terms of the number of skate guards and other safety issues. These tend to be good news/bad news deals - they do offer the rink protection against many claims, but also leave a skater who may really have been injured due to a fault on the part of the rink in a much weaker legal position. State courts have also ruled that simple adherance to a measure like the number of skate guards is not enough to establish that the rink is providing adequate supervision. The court (NJ) said that the purpose of the act wasn't to immunize the rink, but to provide a predictable liability context. This makes rink insurance coverage more affordable, but does not obviate the need for the rink to operate safely and maintain some liability insurance coverage. Fitness and Cross Training If all you're after is some moderate intensity aerobic excercise, then skating is just the ticket. Most sources show the intensity somewhere in between running and cycling, but the actual aerobic benefit depends on how hard you skate. Spend a few moments drifting around between lounging at the snack bar and it's minimal. Spend most of a 2-3 hour session skating, with bursts of speed or tricks then crawl home and you're talking about burning a lot of calories. As complete exercise program, skating has some limitations - it concentrates mostly on the legs and related muscle groups and tends towards a limited range of motion there. Working though a variety of skating skills will broaden the range of motion and muscles worked, but you won't get much upper body workout unless you're doing pairs, cartwheels or aerobics-style skate dancing. Ideally, a cross training program will complement the skating activity - adding both strength and endurance to the muscles that you normall use in skating, and also extending the range of motion involved and excercising relatively lightly used muscles. For instance, work on a rowing machine could strenghten the legs and knees, while involving knee-bend angles beyond the normal slightly bent to extended in skating and also work the back and shoulder muscles. Weight training or exercise machine work is always popular, but you may or may not have the time and inclination for the gym work. You should be sure to discuss your priorities with your skating coach and the gym trainer to make the best and safest use of your time. Cycling is always a good bet, but pays off best if you can integrate the cycling into your normal schedule. Dance or step aerobics are also good, but make sure that activity is complementary enough that you're not simply battering the same muscle as skating. Consult some books on excercise and fitness for more ideas... Stopping Techniques If you've read the in-line FAQ, you may notice an obsession about stopping. Indoors, this isn't such a big deal, since conditions aren't as hostile and most folks are going in the right direction. However, put an indoor skater at the top of even a little hill and watch him try to cope! Snowplow - bend the knees, let the skates angle in while you push out on the heesl and you will gradually stop. Good only for beginners moving very slowly, since at speed the skates may zip together, tangle and shoot out from under the skater. Toe-drag - balance on one skate, bend the knee and extend the other behind to drag the toe stop. It is important to extend the leg directly to the rear or you will pivot and lose your balance. To get the most braking force and stability, bend the knee and get low enough to rest your arm on the skating knee and push downward on the dragging leg. T-stop - balance on one skate and place the other behind the heel of the rolling skate at right angles to the direction of travel. If the skate is not at right angles, it will try to roll away leading to an unplanned split or pivot. However, a little angle will keep the wheels spinning and avoid flat spots. For the best control and least "chatter", hold the braking skate hard against the heel of the rolling skate. Hockey Stop / Power Slide - Here you twist the body and put one or both skates down at right angles to the direction of travel. Effective, but requires considerable practice! Backwards Snowplow - unlike the forwards snowplow, this is an effective speed stop - simply spread your legs while keeping your toes pointed outward. Lean forward as needed to balance, and either stop in a crouch or with a hand on the floor, or carefully relax the outward push to continue rolling backwards. Backwards Toe Drag - while rolling backwards on one skate, tilt the other forward so that the toe stop drags on the floor. Keep your skates close together to minimize any twisting action and think of it as clawing at the floor. Backwards Toe Stop - turn or jump to skating backwards and brake by tipping your toes onto the stops. Very effective, but you must be willing/able to turn butt-first to the hazard. Beginners should start with the feet staggered (runners starting block stance) to avoid "missing" both stops and sliding home belly first. One Foot Stop - for the more expert, do a front-to-back 3-turn and then tip the skating foot up onto the toe stop. With some free leg extension this looks pretty impressive, and letting the leg compress and then pushing off the toe stop in the opposite direction really confuses people. Rink Management To understand the attitudes of rink managers, it is important to understand that most rinks make the bulk of their profits from those crowds of school-age skaters at the weekend sessions, and from group/party rentals. Maintaining a positive image is key to having the parents trust the rink as a place where they can drop off or send their kids for "good clean fun", and this is reflected in the rules and music allowed at a given rink and other aspects, like maintaining visible participation in "just say no" programs and other community affairs. Adult skating is usually pared back to the point where it doesn't lose money, but it usually doesn't make a big difference to the economics of rink operation. The "married, with children" condition results in a "missing generation" of adult skaters at the best of rinks, though many skaters drop out earlier as more "adult" sports and recreational opportunities beckon. Most rink operators have been in the business for years and have ridden down the declining business curve since the roller disco boom. At this time the business seems stable or in a mild upswing, but the operators are usually more concerned with keeping things profitable than experimenting with new programs or sessions. If the offerings at your local rink are lackluster, don't just complain, but rather look at the possibilities and what might be needed to start something new going. This might mean organizing a "club" to hire a good DJ or bring in an organist in place of the old session tapes, or perhaps either renting the rink on some periodic basis for special music nights or guaranteeing a minimum gate receipt for a new session. Books, Videos, Magazines To the best of my knowledge there aren't any cheap/paperback books in print on conventional roller skating and there are no general circulation magazines with significant coverage of conventional skating. However, many libraries will have several of these books on the shelf or available through inter-library loan programs. You may also find them at used book stores or book remainder outlets. **** see skate.book.faq for roller, in-line and ice skating books *** Movies Over the years, there have been quite a few movies that have included Roller Skating, either as part of the plot or in scenes involving the lead characters. Here are a few, futher contributions apprecitated... Also check out the Internet Movie Database for more detailed information on video avilability, casts, ratings, trivia and other information: url: http://us.imdb.com/ The Rink; Charles Chaplin (Comedy, 1917, Silent B&W) A silent film parody of love at the skating rink. Shall We Dance; Fred Astaire & Ginger Rogers (Musical, RKO 1937) The lead characters are supposed to get married as a publicity stunt. There's a dance number "Let's Call the Whole Thing Off" with Fred and Ginger skating in Central Park. Doing this on skates was supposedly Ginger's idea but Fred was willing to give it a shot. Ginger later hosted the earliest known celebrity skating party at a LA area rink - don't blame that one on Cher. The Big Store; Marx Brothers (Comedy, MGM 1941, B&W) This was one of the Marx Brothers last films. The skating content is minimal - a chase scene inside the store which includes roller skating, bicycles and whatnot. It's Always Fair Weather; Gene Kelly & Cyd Chrarisse (Musical, MGM 1955, Color) Something about a 10-year later soldiers reunion that had some NYC skating scenes. Excerpted in That's Entertainment II & III. Monkey Business; Cary Grant, Ginger Rogers & Marilyn Monroe (Musical, Fox 1952, Color) Some zany mad-scientist romp, contains actual skating rink scenes with Marilyn... Xanadu; Olivia Newtown-John, Michael Beck, Cary Grant (Roller Disco, Universal 1980, Color) The male lead characters is trying to build a club/pleasure palace which turns out to be a roller disco. There's supposed to be a fair amount of skating. Roller Boogie; Linda Blair, Jim Bray, Kimberly Beck, Beverly Garland (Roller Disco, 1979, Color) A young skating couple attempt to stop a plot to demolish the rink in a shopping mall. This is includes Jim Bray who was then a national champion skater from CA. Skatetown U.S.A.; Patrick Swayze, Ruth Buzzi, Melissa Sue Anderson (Roller Disco, 1979, Color) This is supposed to be a fairly brainless movie. It is supposed to include April Allen a former national champion freestyle/pairs skater and also Partick Swayze who was at one point a competitive dance skater. Come Back to the Five and Dime, Jimmy Dean, Jimmy Dean; Karen Black, Cher (1982) Cher is the Queen of the Dixie Roller Rink in Odessa, Texas and is planning on running away to join Ice Capades... Unfortunately this film is located in the resaurant and despite the skating references has not skating content. Fast Forward, John Scott Clough, Michael DeLorenzo, Karen Kopins (?, 1985, Color) This is supposed to be about some midwesterners that come to New York with the idea of making it in the Dance/Skating scene. Solar Warriors (aka Solarbabies); Richard Jordan, Jami Gertz (SF/Hockey, Brooskfilm 1986) In some far future a group of ophans playing something like roller hockey gain magic powers and travel cross-country on skates. Roller Derby Girl; (Roller Derby, Paramount 1949, Short B&W) Fireball; Mickey Rooney, Pat O'Brian and Marilyn Monroe (Roller Derby, Fox 1952, Color) Mickey's character runs away to become a Roller Derby star and gets entangled with the bad girl (Marilyn, of course). Kansas City Bombers; Raquel Welch (Roller Derby, MGM 1972) Unholy Rollers (aka Leader of the Pack); Claudia Jennings (Roller Derby, AIP 1972) This is an "R" rated view of Roller Derby, with on character trying to screw her way up to the head of the team. Rollerball; James Caan (SF/Roller Derby; 1975) Rollerball is centered around a no-win game very loosely based on Roller Derby. The game scenes involve skating by both Roller Derby pros, British and Japanese skaters and Hollywood stunt men. Rollerbabies; (Sex/Roller Derby, 1976) This is a X-rated film loosely based on Roller Derby but involving mostly sex acts hung on the usual minimal plot. California Girls; (Sex/Roller Derby, 1976) This is another X-rated film with references to Roller Derby, but apparently with no actual skating content. The Shaggy D.A.; (Roller Derby; Disney 1976) This is a commedy sequel to Disney's The Shaggy Dog, which features a Roller Derby sub-plot featuring various Roller Derby pros. The Big Brawl (aka Battle Creek Brawl); Jackie Chan (Roller Derby; Warner 1980) This is an odd R-rated martial arts film placed in 1930's Chicago which also include a skate-racing sub-plot which appears to be loosly based on Roller Derby. Organizations There are two major organizations of interest to roller skaters. The first is the USAC/RS (US Amateur Confederation/Roller Skating), which is associated with the US Olympic Committee and the FIRS (Federation International de Roller Skate), and is the official sanctioning body for all amateur competitions. The other is the RSA (previously known as the RSROA - Roller Skating Rink Operators Association) which is a professional association of rink operators and roller skating pro's. The RSA works closely with the USAC/RS - RSA members can judge the achievement awards and also provide the sites and organization for the local and regional events, while competitive judging remains the province of the USAC/RS. The RSA web page: http://www.oninternet.com/orgs/rollerskating/ The FIRS web page: http://www.worldsport.com/sports/rollerskating/ The USAC/RS publishes a monthly journal, which is included in the fee for a competitive amateur card or available for $10/year. This journal is mostly limited to USAC/RS news/business. They also issue a set of manuals for various aspects of skating, video tapes of correct skating examples and of competitions, but be warned that these materials are intended as references, not as how-to or instructional material. As of Fall 1996, the USAC/RS finally has their official web pages online and up-to-date. The pages include a lot of general information about artistic, speed and hockey skating and some current news and schedules. The new url: http://www.usacrs.com/ The "other" Amateur skating body is the NARSA - the National Amateur Roller Skating Assocation. They seem to draw their membership from older rinks and skaters in the mid-Atlantic and eastern Great Lakes areas and have their own "national meet" annually. There are some other un-affiliated regioal speed and hockey leagues, but none that I know of that have national meets. The SRSTA - Society of Roller Skating Teachers of America - is an organization for skating instructors. Orginally something of an instructors guild, they are becoming more active in instructor training and certification. The SRSTA affiliated with the RSA, altough the USAC/RS has been trying to promote their own coaching certification program, in accordance with USOC precepts that each NGB should have athetic development and coaching certification and education programs. There is also an international instructors association, the IRSTA - International Roller Skating Trainers Association and also national associations in other countries. Another organization of interest is the IISA - The International In-line Skating Association. Originally sort of a fan club sponsored by Rollerblade, it was rechristend as the IISA in hopes of obtaining participation from other manufacturers. Later, it was reorganized as an in-line industry organization, without skating members, though there are supposedly skater representatives on the board. The IISA has moved to make itself a sanctioning body for outdoor in-line racing and for instructor certification. In doing so, it set skaters afoul of the USAC/RS rules prohibiting participation in non USAC/RS sanctioned events. As a result, the IISA has taken something of an advesarial stance with regard to the USAC/RS and seems to have been instrumental in getting the USAC/RS to revise it's rules and provide more representation of skaters on the USAC/RS board. On the Roller Hockey front, things are more confused and still in a state of flux. The USAC/RS holds the international/olympic sanction as the NGB for roller hockey, but the sanctioned forms are variations on international "rink hockey", played with soft ball, hard ball or puck and with either a curved plastic or wood stick or a flat-blade wood stick, depending mostly on the interst/tolerance of the local rink owners. With the advent of the in-line boom, there was a surge of interest in roller hockey, but played on in-lines and in forms bearing a closer resemblence to televised NHL ice hockey game. First the NIHA was formed as sort of a grass-roots organisation to promote and sanction in-ine hockey. They achieved some success and recognition, since they were selling to meet the current demand and focuses on league play at playgrounds, recreation centers and the new municiapal outdoor rinks and commercial roller-hockey rinks as opposed the the traditional roller-rink venues of the USAC/RS. The USAC/RS countered by creating a "USA Roller Hockey" program under their aegis that was very similar to the NIHA offering and intended to provide and easy way for a rink to get an in-line hockey program operating. Later the amateur ice hockey sanctioning body realized the potential that in-line hockey could have in conjunction with their sport and the created a division knowns as "USA Hockey Inline". This program has grown and they merged with some other programs and eventaually bought out the NIHA. At this time the ice hockey sanctioning bodies and the roller skating sanctioning bodies are contending on both the national and international front for control of the sport and Olympic entrance. RSA 7301 Georgetown Rd. Suite 123 Indianapolis, IN 46268 Telephone: (317)-875-3390 USAC/RS 4730 South St. PO Box 6579 Lincoln, NE 68506 Orders: (402)-483-7551 (402)-483-1465 (FAX) National Museum of Roller Skating 4730 South Street PO Box 6579 Lincoln, NE 68506 Phone: (402)-483-7551 Monday-Friday 9 AM - 5 PM exc Holiday Annual membership to the Museum is $25 and includes a subscription to History Roller Skating Overview, The Evolution of the Roller Skate book and an I.D. card (gee...) US Roller Skating Magazine PO Box 6579 Lincoln, NE 68506-0579 $10/year US, $15/year other USAC/RS Books: American Roller Dance Skating - Book I, Bronze and Silver Dances American Roller Dance Skating - Book II, Gold and Optional Dances General Rules for Competitive Amateur Roller Skating - USAC/RS Roller Free Skating Roller Figure Skating Roller Speed Skating Tabulating and Scoring Manual Puck Roller Hockey Ball Roller Hockey International Roller Skate Dancing International Speed Skating Pairs Skating Books are ~$5 each, there is a library set that includes most of the Figure/Dance skating books with a binder. USAC/RS Videos: 1992 Artistic Finals $20 1992 Indoor Speed Natl $20 Champ Train to Win $20 Junior Olympic Hockey $20 Artistic Standards: Figures $20 Free Skating $20 Pairs $20 American Dance $20 International Dance $20 $2/order P&H (note: Ritchie Enterprises also sells competition videos, see below) What does it cost? Below are some "typical" 1993 retail prices from as Suburban Rink Shop. Your shop may offer better or worse prices or you may want to try mail order to see if you can get a better deal. Also, check if you shop offers discounts to club members or to active students of the rink pro's. [comments] are a rough indication of the quality level of the item... Retail Mail-Order [Q] Beginner/Kid Combo $85 Manmade Leather Boot [marginal] Double Action Plate [beginner] Pacer Wheels [beginner] "Hartford" Bearings [marginal] Budget Combo $144 $129 Riedell 120 Boot [beginner] Sure-Grip Super-X Plate [beginner] Pace Setter Wheels [beginner] "Hartford" Bearings [marginal] Econo Combo $208 Riedell 120 Boot [beginner] Sure-Grip Century Plate [good] All American Plus Wheels [ok] "Hartford" Bearings [marginal] Good Combo $322 $269 Riedell 220 Boot [good] Sure-Grip Classic Plate [good] Bones Wheels [good] "Japanese" Bearings [ok] Deluxe Combo $489 Riedell 220 Boot [good] Snyder Plate [premium] Bones Wheels [good] Fafnir/SKF Bearings [good] Piece Prices: Sure-Grip Super-X Plate $28 $35 [beginner] Sure-Grip Century Plate $72 $89 [good] Sure-Grip Classic Plate $91 $99 [better] Star Freestyle Plate $229 [premium] Atlas Freestyle Plate $259 $199 [premium] Snyder (various) Plates $272 $199 [premium] LaBeda Pro-line Plate $342 $269 [exotic] Bones "Rink Rats" Wheels $50 [ok] Bones (various) Wheels $54 $60 [good] Bones "Elite" Wheels $90 [premium] Hyper "HyperActive" Wheels $55 [ok] Hyper (various) Dance Wheels $83 $79 [premium] Vanguard "Advantage" Wheels $63 $65 [good] Japanese Bearings $24 [ok] Fafnir or SKF $56 $55 [good] GMN Bearings $56 [good] Bones Swiss $56 [good] German 2-piece Bearings $100 [exotic] Snyder Bearings $127 [exotic] Riedell 120 Boot $82 $89 [beginner] Riedell 220 Boot $140 $120 [good] Riedell 297 (Dance) Boot $226 $179 [good] Riedell 355 (Silver Star) Boot $189 $169 [good] Riedell 375 (Gold Star) Boot $237 $199 [special use] Riedell 900 (Royal) Boot $284 $219 [special use] (boots typically $20-30 more for odd widths) * Retail prices based on skate shop retail 1993 from a shop using SESS (Southeastern Skate Supply) distributor, imports from Tomy's Skater Shop pricelist. Mail Order prices 1994 from the Roller Skate Factory Outlet catalog. **Update - as of 1996 boot prices are about 10-20% higher than above, wheels and accessories 5-10% higher and plates about the same. Mail Order Outlets and Sources Generally speaking, you are best off buying most of your skating gear from your local rink, since they have an interest in providing good service to customers they expect to see frequently. They may not offer the best price, but don't forget to check for discounts offered to club members, students of resident pro's or registered amateur skaters. In the event that your local shop doesn't fill your needs or where cost is an over-riding concern, several well known mail-order outlets are listed below. PLEASE be sure to ask about return/exchange policies when placing an order for boots or other "sized" items. No particular recommedation is implied! Skates on Haight 384 Oyster Point Blvd #5 South San Francisco, CA 94080 Orders: 800-554-1235 Info: 415-244-9800 Fax: 415-873-0200 Skates on Haight runs a large mail-order operation including conventional roller skates, in-lines, skate boards and snow boards. Unfortunatly, the conventional skating content has been dwindled to almost nothing - mostly outdoor skates and wheels. Their retail shop is on Haight Street adjacent to Golden Gate park, the mail order address listed above is also referred to as "Skates off Haight". Used to be the catalog was $2, but now they're advertising it for free if you call the information number. Rainbo Sports Shop 4836 N. Clark Street Chicago, IL 60640 Orders: 800-752-8370 Info: 312-275-5500 FAX: 312-275-5506 Rainbo is large retail and mail-order operation that carries all kinds of skates - ice, roller and in-line, also also skating wear, accessories and trinkets. Call to request their catalog, but be sure to specificy that you are insterested only in roller skating equipment and don't hold your breath waiting for it to arrive - they'll probably send you the ice catalog instead. Their prices seem to be about normal retail, but they have a broader selection than most any other outlet - for example they stock Riedell, Harlick and SP Teri boots. Jerry's 520 Hood Road Markham, Ontario L3R 3K9 Orders: 800-263-2496 Phone: 905-477-1172 Fax: 905-477-8859 908 Niagra Falls Blvd Suite 566 North Tonawanda, NY 14120-2060 Orders: 800-263-2496 Jerry's has an ice skating oriented catalog "Skating Trends" which includes a broad variety of ladies skating wear, but no mens wear and nothing roller specific. They are extremely prompt about sending their catalog and get good press from folks who have dealt with them. Roller Skate Factory Outlet Fort Mill, South Carolina Info: 800-552-6031 (seems to always be an answering machine) Orders: 800-713-7120 url: http://members.aol.com/ikeskate/ike2.htm RSFO advertises in the yellow pages up and down the East Coast. Calling will get you an 8-page price list/catalog. Their prices seem to be substantially discounted from retail. I know some satisfied customers, but when I tried to check to see if something was "in stock" before placing an order, I couldn't get an answer. It looks like RSFO may now be operating as "Ike's Skaters Outlet" at the same number. They have a web site, which may or may not be up to date. East Coast Skate Connection Virginia Beach, Virginia Phone: 800-397-5668 ECSC advertises in the USAC/RS journal. They carry Hockey, Speed in-line and artistic skates and claim to be "your source for discount skate equipment". Make sure you ask for the "Artistic Price List". Despite the discount claim, their prices seem similar to skate shop retail. Tomy's Skater Shop International 1209 Baker Road Northhampton Business Center Suite 512 Virginia Beach, VA 23455 Phone: 804-464-0468 800-955-TOMY FAX: 804-464-1157 Tomy's is the US branch of a six-shop German skate retailer. They import a variety of European skates and accessories including Star and Atlas skates, Risport Boots and Roll-line wheels. Calling should get you a brochure listing their standard line. The Cheapskater 236 West 15th Street New York, NY 10011 Phone: 800-419-6646 or 212-627-0694 Fax: 212-489-7235 URL: http://www.cheapskater.com/ e-mail: cheap@inch.com The Cheapskater is a mail-order discount shop that carries both In-Line skates and a limited selection of quad speed and artistic skates, boots and wheels. Even though the selection of artistic stuff isn't very extensive, they do stock mid-line Riedell boots, Sure-Grip, Snyder and Atlas plates and Bones and Hyper wheels. For a while, they had the lowest prices, but they dissapeared from the web and reappeared with prices in line with the other mail order outlets. When I called to place an order, the person I talked to did know something about artistic skates and was able to check whether the item I wanted was in stock. Their order-taking hours are noon-8:00 PM EST, but it's best to call between noon and 4:00 PM when they can talk-to/do-business with their distributors. Prices include UPS Ground shipping for orders over $25 and they apparently have a catalog in addition to the web page mentioned above. On the other hand there have been complaints on the net from people who have gotten excuses instead of prompt delivery and I've noticed that what they claim to "ship from stock" is actually drop-shipped from a distributor. This isn't unusual in a mail-order operation, but it gives the company less control over customer satisfaction and it all boils down to what you "pay" for that discount. Skates Plates and More Orbit Skate Center 615 Consumers Avenue Palatine, IL 60067 Phone: 1-847-394-9248 Fax: 1-847-394-9455 Email: skatemore@aol.com Skates, Plates and More seems to be a mail-order operation run by the shop at the Orbit rink in the Chicago area. Call or E-mail to get a brief catalog. Their prices are a bit random, some items seem near skate shop retail, others nicely discounted. Some common items are conspicuously missing - Riedell 297 boots and the standard Synder Imperial and Super-Deluxe plates, though more exotic stuff is present. The final note is that some of their postings indicate they aparently only do business out-of-state, though this isn't mentioned in the catalog. Wheels of Florida 924 West SR 436 Suite 1600 Altamonte Springs, FL 32714 Phone: 407-869-9652 Fax: 407-774-9048 Email: flwheels@magicnet.net Wheels of Florida is a broad line skate shop that carries in-lines, quads, ice skates and accessories. Their prices seem to be near skate shop retail once you factor in shipping charges. Call or send e-mail for a one-page price list - specify artistic, speed, in-line or ice skating so they'll send you the right one. The carry more than is on the price list, offer discounts on assembled combinations and to skaters/coaches with USAC/RSA cards; and also carry parts and provide service. Netskate 239 Prairie Drive Madison, AL 35758 Phone: 800-595-8560 e-mail: shane@netskate.com URL: http://www.netskate.com Netskate is a new web-based mail-order skate shop, though they also do conventional phone based orders. They carry quad skates, inline skates, skateboards, and accessories. They also do custom skates and assembly. Their prices are discounted from normal skate shop retail, but not as low as the larger discount outfits. They acceept credit card orders via secure web transactions. Ground Shipping is included on orders over $100. Club Skate (California) Phone: 800-258-2758 Club Skate used to be about the best deal going for "ice" boots and blades, but they've apparently discontinued the hardgoods and are now selling only apparal and accessories. See Dante Cozzi... Dante Cozzi Sports Phone: 800-283-2683 Fax: 516-783-2964 Dante Cozzi is another nominally ice skating shop and mail-order outfit with some pretty good prices. They get good press over on the ice skating mailing lists. They don't have any catalog or price list so you have to call and ask about what you want. Skate Scene USA Phone: 1-800-438-0304 Skate scene is the retailer for the "Champ's" clones of the Star and Atlas skates mentioned in the "plates" topic. They also offer a line of wheels and accessories under the "Champ's" label. I don't think they have a catalog. Cote' Inc. (Cote Majorette Supply Inc) 74 West Bridge Street Morrisville, PA 19067 (215) 295-8156 VISA - Master Charge Orders Only: 800-523-3948 * (PA) 800-562-3308 Hours: 9-5 * Thur. 9-9 * Sat 9-1 * Closed Sunday Cote is a fabric and trim shop/distributor which specializies in materials for the Performing Arts including twirlers, skaters, dancers, color-guard and cheerleaders. Whatever sort of material or glitz you've seen on a skate costume, they've probably got. Forever Yours 660 North Main Street Mansfield, MA 02048 508-339-3120 Forever Yours carries the same sort of stuff as Cote. Their ad says to ask for a free brochure and to ask about a Swatch Book with over 100 lycra patterns. Twizzle Designs PO Box 721-231 Heather Dr Dryden, Ontario P8N 2Z4 CANADA 807-223-4533 call or write for free catalog Twizzle Designs sells skate wear and claims to be North America's premier skating apparel manufacturer. They have a www site with illustrations of some of their product line: url - http://dryden.lakeheadu.ca/~twizzle Unicorn Sport 1411 N. Sixth Avenue Knoxville, TN 37917 615-523-3343 send $3 (refundable) for catalog Unicorn Sport also sells skate wear and calls themselves the Skater's Edge in Fashion. Rinx Records PO Box 6607 Burbank, CA 91510 818-848-4161/242-0574 There are a number of sources of skating music, especially recorded sessions or organ music. Rinx records has those, but also a large library of 45's - for instance about 50 double sided selections for just the 92-blues tempo. There are also multiple selections in the Waltz Tempos 108, 120, 135, 138, 156, 162, 168, 198, and 204 in case you're working the international dances or trying the ice tempos. Yet another category is the specialty tunes for birthdays, the hokey-pokey or hat dance. Call or write for a complete list. Ritchie Enterprises PO Box 19302 Denver, CO 80219 800-788-5814 after 7:30 PM or weekends & holidays Videocassettes of Roller Artistic and Speed Nationals from several years - Call for a complete list. Tower Lighting 179 Swansea Mall Drive Swansea, MA 02777 Phone: 800-558-6937 Fax: 508-672-2782 Email: towerlight@aol.com Need a mirror ball, smoke machine, strobes, rope lights, spots, helicoptors, police lights, projectors or high-tech centerpieces? The Tower Light catalog has all of the above, sometimes in more varients and models than you could ever decide between... ======================================================================== Copyright Notice: This material is Copyright 1994-1996 by George Robbins. Rights to reproduce or distribute via on-line services offering general usenet or internet access is freely granted, provided that such services do not impose contractural or copyright restrictions upon further free reproduction or re-distribution of the material, and that this copyright notice remains intact and visible. All other rights are reserved, contact George Robbins (grr@tharsis.com) regarding permissions.